It all started with what I thought was a semi-humorous, tongue-in-cheek post about Night Fishing for Walleye.
Those who know me personally got it right away, those who don’t took a bit longer.
It was supposed to be funny, in a dry, smart ass kind of way.
Over the past 15 years of posting on Chicago Area fishing forums, I’ve apparently made a number of enemies. I was banned from a couple of sites for reasons I no longer remember, or care about. I was even banned from the Illinois Smallmouth Alliance forum when I was one of their Conservation Directors. I do remember being pretty pissed off about that one, but I no longer remember why or care about that one either. Funny how when the great scheme of things is analyzed, in this case fishing, what was once important becomes almost laughable. Even embarrassing that I was somehow involved.
Oh well.
So, the reaction I got from one person that didn’t see the humor in my night fishing walleye post, kind of surprised me.
He had just signed on to the forum recently under an alias and his very first post was to make fun of another member. Okay, that’s kind of odd. He did that with his next two posts. Okay, after three posts he just became known as the forum pain-in-the-ass. Then he found my post. Apparently I know this guy and his comments quickly became personal.
SIDEBAR: My own personal opinion is that anyone that joins a forum and hides behind an alias so they can attack others is a sniveling piece of scum barely worth tolerating. On my own forum, I had a policy that if I didn’t know you personally you had to sign up with your real name. Which would explain why my forum only had about 60 members. It’s still out there. I may start it up again some day.
Well, anyway…
When I’m attacked, my first reaction, right or wrong, is to attack back. Something I learned from my dad, never let the assholes beat you down and win. I’m not always proud of this personality trait, but there have been plenty of times where it’s come in hand.
I have no doubt I should have kept my mouth shut. As I said, in the great scheme of things, who cares really. When I go back and read what I said, it wasn’t that bad, even tactful in a blunt kind of way.
But the response was personal and uncalled for. Whoever it is knows my past and has been reading me for years, but I still don’t think I deserved this:
Man, you sure do have a high opinion of yourself. Kinda funny really because all I’ve seen from you lately is how you can’t catch fish and how you don’t care about it.
A friend once told me, “I can go catch 50 creek chubs in a few hours, doesn’t make me a good fisherman”. He also said, “Just because you are a character doesn’t mean you have character”. I think both apply to you.
That blog entry was suppose to be funny? I’m not the only one the humor eluded. Look at the first few comments.
There is a reason that website of yours failed. There’s a reason your guide service failed. There is a reason your canoe shop or whatever the hell it was, failed. There is one common denominator in all those things. You.
Stalker? Hardly. I just made an observation about your spam link story and it snowballed. I read it because I thought you might actually have a story about catching walleyes at night. I don’t know what I was thinking, you don’t catch fish. That’s why you never see anyone in the spots you so graciously point out to the internet public. Instead it was a dig at people that actually catch fish with some pictures of cigar walleyes you happened upon while floating a minnow or twisting a Producto. Anyone that has fished the Fox for any length of time has hooked into the occasional walleye. It’s not uncommon. You present yourself as having knowledge as to how to target them on the Fox? Bullshit, if you did you’d blow up this site with your spam links as to how to exactly. You don’t know shit. You actually know less than I first thought.
I’m done with you, your self righteous ass and the sheep that have their lips permanently affixed to your asshole.
You are full of shit and the ones that know better see right through you, sir.
I believe my next response to him started… I appreciate your opinion and I’ll take all that you said under consideration…
And then I let it die.
The funny part about this is that the approach from the attacker, this time and others, is always one of going after the “expert.” The only problem is, I’ve never called myself one and I actually cringe when others call me The Fox River Expert. Maybe they want to be the Fox River Expert. Well then, go ahead. They come after me like they’re expecting a fight and now is their chance to prove to everyone how I know nothing. Okay, go ahead, really, I don’t care.
I have purposely phased myself out of all but one of the local fishing forums, the one where this happened. This is an isolated incident and he was immediately banned from the site. There’s a rumor going around on who it is and if that’s the case, this guy has been banned from this site in the past and just about every other site in the Chicago area except his own. I guess why is obvious.
What is even odder is his timing. It comes at a time when I’ve been questioning the different ways left for outdoor writers to get published. Print, except for a chosen few, is all but dead. There is almost no outlet left in that medium for someone to come along and get published.
Since I’ve been involved with internet fishing forums since 1996 and began leaving these stories on them since 1998, I’ve always questioned whether or not this was the way to go. Was this the way outdoor writing should go. My resounding answer is NO. Take a look at how things are panning out. I write for free for ChicagoNow, a Tribune Media Company. I could write for Patch, Tribune Local and any one of a handful of area so called news sites, all for free. It’s not like they’re going to pay anyone to do it. We’re all now Citizen Writers/Reporters/Correspondents. Our voices can be heard.
It’s a feature.
That being said, then why do I bother?
For me it’s an outlet, something to do after I quit painting and making sculpture years ago. When push comes to shove I expect absolutely nothing to come of any of what I’ve done over these past 15 years. At least monetarily.
Personally, it’s been extremely gratifying. I’ve done guiding, on and off the water fishing classes, seminars and even started a canoe business. All the while writing things down for the hell of it. I’ve got to meet some really great people. It’s been fun.
Because of this incident I was going to walk away from this last forum where I participate.
Then I got a handful of messages.
Guys were telling me that they learned a lot from what I’ve been saying over the years. REALLY?
Apparently I inspired a few to document their own adventures and start their own blogs. I follow their blogs, they’re not bad.
Another said my photos inspired him to go take more of his own and manipulate them differently. Again, really?
I didn’t know any of this. I just put stuff out there and, well, don’t really give it much thought after that. I’m flattered and embarrassed at the same time.
But the one thing that I did learn, the thing I’ve known all along and this has driven home, is that on fishing forums, if I don’t know you or your real name and all you have is an alias you go by, I will completely ignore you. I’m done pretending that aliases are somehow even remotely interesting. They’re not. If you can’t put your name, your real name, behind the things you say and do, then I want nothing to do with you. The forums around the Chicago Area, if you bother to go look at their numbers, have never been all that successful considering the amount of anglers, hunters and wanderers around here. The alias issue is the main reason.
As for that other thing I brought up, that thing about outdoor writing and the internet, that possibility you might be able to make a living from writing and photographing and putting it on the internet somehow.
Don’t quit your day job. There’s a 99.9 percent chance it’s not going to happen.
Get it in your head now that you are doing what you do for the fun of it, for the art of it in some cases. You’ll sleep easier at night knowing that and there’s a good chance it will make your content that much better.
Erin Block
5 Dec 2011Life is a foundation for art, not the other way around (Stephen King). You’re right…it can’t be. Perhaps art is just inherently too unstable (as are its creators…?). The publishing thing is frustrating. Very much so. And I think times have changed, and they aren’t going back. The days of actually being able to make a living as an outdoor writer are gone. Because now, writers are (as you said) expected to give their works for free. The many voices have quelled the few. And by the masses mediocrity is sustained.
Also, I couldn’t agree more with you on the sniveling piece of scums…aliases and anonymous postings are just that. If a person can’t put their name to their opinion, I don’t have much respect for that person.
I’ve learned things from your posts, Ken. And what is more….I enjoy them. Thank you.
Ken G
5 Dec 2011Erin,
I think of you and you’re writing, I think of all the other really good writers out there that I’ve got to know through OBN and I wonder what will happen to all of you over the years. I’ve been doing this for over 13 years now. I’ve taken short, very short breaks numerous times. I’m in the middle of one now. But I always seem to go back and each time it changes slightly.
The many voices have quelled the few, and I don’t like it.
Though I am a product of computers and the internet, I have this thing for books, the feel of paper. The ability for it to be easily transportable. I like bookmarks and turning down the corner of a page.
I used to hang out with book artists, that is part of why I like to combine images and words. Even a single word paragraph. I have an image in my head when I do that.
I’m glad you enjoy this stuff Erin, but apparently my antagonist isn’t learning enough. I guess I should have gone into excruciating detail on how to rig a Lindy rig for walleye and go into explicit detail on how to use it and where. (Advil, where’d that Advil go?)
My painting mentor told me while I was still in school that if I wanted to make it as an artist all I had to do was keep painting till I was 50. By then over 90 percent of my peers will have gone away. He was correct. Same could be said of writers, only now I don’t know what the outcome will be. Other than a happy life. I hope.
Kirk @ River Mud
7 Dec 2011Erin, I think we could agree that there are multiple non-malicious reasons that people have and use aliases. Low on that totem pole (I hope, though I have no data to prove it) are those who simply, or primarily, use them to attack from the safety of an alias.
Even worse are the “create a new alias” folks who just can’t give it a rest. Seen them a million times on message boards, luckily, not so much in the blogosphere. In 15 years of message board drivel, I’ve been privileged (and maybe smart) enough to not have ever been banned.
I think we can also agree that using one’s real name on the internet does not give one special privileges to attack someone else without merit. Even with someone’s real name, there’s little or no threat of the message board / blog tirade bleeding over into “real life.”
Ken G
7 Dec 2011Kirk,
It only takes one to ruin it for the many.
The main reason I’ve been banned in the past is for giving away my spots. After showing my spots to the person/s in charge, they were now there spots. Since I wouldn’t quit talking about them, I had to go.
I think after 15 years of message boards, I’m just tired of them. They’ve outlived there usefulness. I have noticed things degenerate the most during the winter. Too much time on their hands.
Kirk @ River Mud
7 Dec 2011Ha ha, it’s the opposite with hunting message boards – the summers are absolutely brutal with personal attacks, zingers, ad hominems, etc.
In our part of the world, the “secret spot” stuff is sooo terribly silly because there are millions of anglers and hunters, along with thousands of professional guides, and hundreds of maps and guide books. Every time I hear the “secret spot” mantra I just laugh out loud. 130 years of recreational fishing, 110 years of bird hunting, and 70 years of surfing and kayaking out here on the I-95 corridor……you really think you got a “secret” spot?
And while I’m sure the Chicago area has some beautiful, secluded, and hard to reach places (my favorite is the latter), I bet few of them could be described as “secret” or in any properietary.
Ken G
7 Dec 2011I’ve promoted the Fox endlessly and shown hundreds my spots over the years with all the guiding and classes. I freely give them away.
I run into no one out there anymore.
I’m working on some new hard to reach spots, I’ll have some for you no matter what when you make it up this way. Be ready for some bushwhacking.
Dan Roloff
5 Dec 2011Can’t let the trolls get you down brother. I have a similar philosophy, no need to hide and attack because it is all about community. There is enough trolls out there, it is harder and better to be stand up for what you believe in.
Stay true to yourself, it suits you.
Dan
Ken G
5 Dec 2011I was letting it get to me Dan. That’s why I hacked this out this afternoon. Get it out of my head and maybe it will go away.
Now those other issues about the internet and writing, I have no clue what to do about that other than keep doing what I’ve been doing.
Thanks Dan.
bob L
5 Dec 2011well, you sure can attract them. I do too, it’s just they don’t tend to write to me. Perhaps I am not as interesting an expert at anything as you.
Come to think of it, I am an expert at putting live bait as a tip on flies used with my fly rod, but I don’t think fly guys read me anymore: I’m more like that mad man up in the mountains.
I am, truly, an expert at taking people fishing and helping them catch a fish, but as everyone thinks they know how to raise children simply because they have some, everyone thinks they know how to help people catch fish.
Plus, I’m past the ego part, like you – at least to the degree I feel a desire to answer them. I don’t care if anyone knows me or my services or my abilities except for those who hire me, and those who come with hope and joy in their eyes, to fish with us.
Just you wait `Enry `Iggins. You’ll care even less about this when 60+ rolls around; when they pop up, delete them and exorcise them from your life and space.
But, you are an expert. Sorry. Sometimes it simply comes with age, time, experience, and a touch of thinking ability, whether we like it or not.
Ken G
5 Dec 2011Sir Bob,
For as soft and cuddly and inviting as you can be, you also have this air of intimidation, unspoken, but there. Don’t know how to explain it any better than that. Maybe that too comes with age. Reminds me of what you say about your dad. They don’t dare talk back directly to you. That’s an ass whippin’ waiting to happen.
If the rumors are correct, it’s a kid in his mid 20’s. Got that testosterone thing going, thumping on his chest. Me, I gotta save what testosterone is left for those things where it really counts and are much more enjoyable. Ain’t got much left to waste, especially on shit like this.
Ahhhh, live bait on fly rods. I may have to do a whole series on that next year. Make sure I bring some fly purists along. My favorite was out on the Apple River with a fly guy. I thought he was going to chum the water for me when he saw me tail hook that creek chub and haul it out into the deep hole on my 5 weight.
bob france
5 Dec 2011tounge and cheek? darn! i was planning to go pick up some worms and some jigs and wait for darkness on the fox… oh well
i did catch photo and release a few nice crappie on a jig by the casino in elgin the other day…
(in the dark)
Ken G
5 Dec 2011Bob,
Years ago I used to go up to Elgin and South Elgin and fish in the dark. I do better during the day. I liked fishing around the casino boat for some reason. Liked the way it all looked.
Besides, I get bit off in the dark by one of those toothy things and even with my reading glasses and a klieg light I’ll never get another hook tied on.
I got a bunch of used crawler rigs laying around if you want ’em 🙂
Bob France
5 Dec 2011yep… i hate tying stuff on in the dark (i almost never use leaders)
anyways its nice around the casino because its dug out from when the boat used to move its a nice strech there and you can park close to where you fish (of course i prefer to be closer to nature than in the park but i usually only have 30 minutes to fish)
by the dam (elgin) at night there is too many beggars
they dont seem to bother you right by the casino
as for using live bait i prefer a jig or a lure but almost always have a hockey puck container of spikes and a cup of nightcrawlers
and for me its ok just as long as im holding the pole
otherwise i fall asleep…
cofisher
5 Dec 2011Ken,
I don’t get many spam emails or nasty comments, so I assume that you’ve hit the nail on the head and someone can’t live with it. So, what to do? Call the A$$hole out. Nah, ignore, ignore, ignore. The guy is a a psychopath with a small penis. There is no good response for someone like him. Rock on Ken!
Howard
Ken G
5 Dec 2011Howard,
I usually don’t get much either, but this one was over the top. A guy with only an alias questioning my character? That ain’t gonna happen. I feel purged, now it will go away.
Thanks Howard.
Kirk @ River Mud
7 Dec 2011Ken, I don’t mean this negatively at all, but I wonder if this is a generational thing (I’m 37)……it takes 30 seconds for someone to attack your character on the internet. Then they get up and leave.
Why care at all? People who know you will see through it, if it’s falsely based claims.
This is especially true of the younger crowd (teens and 20s) – I teach college part-time – a lot of them have no concept that there is a difference between fact and fiction. If they intend it as a “joke,” then somehow you’re supposed to take it as a “joke.” I left a hunting forum (voluntarily) last year after being dinged up by young guys who would just respond, “UR Dum.” and “Too long, didn’t read.”
Interacting with that level of folks (not the generation, the intellect level) is just a waste of time. Sorry that one of them has been coming after you.
Ken G
7 Dec 2011I think it is generational Kirk.
We have a pretty good idea of who did this, over 90 percent sure. If that’s the case, it’s someone I helped out and got my contacts in the local industry to pay attention to him.
That’s a strange way to say thanks.
Mike
5 Dec 2011Please don’t give up on writing. I have been learning so much from you since I started reading your blog. I am a mid 40s guy trying to learn everything I can. I have been a police officer for 18 years and believe me when I tell you that I get critics like that every single day. I don’t care what they have to say. No matter how personal they get because I know tomorrow I can still have a positive effect on somebody’s life. Your having that positive effect on my life. I can tell you are a man of good character in your writing. You tell it the way it is. You don’t sugar coat anything. I would rather go fishing with you and catch nothing than fish with that ass and catch a thousand fish. I would learn more from you.
Don’t let these jackasses bother you.
Mike
bob france
5 Dec 2011mike, im retired… miss the job not the bs fishing was and still is my escape
Ken G
5 Dec 2011Mike, no worries on the writing.
It has taken a hit due to my on again, off again disappearing career in graphics. Makes it hard to concentrate. But I keep plodding along.
I grew up in a neighborhood of Chicago cops, my uncle is one. I think that’s where I get some of my attitude from. Usually I can brush this stuff off, this one kept bugging me. I don’t care what people think about my fishing abilities, they can tear that apart all they want, I’m out to have fun. That character remark is what did it.
I liked Bob F’s comment,
“and for me its ok just as long as im holding the pole
otherwise i fall asleep…”
A few more years and that’s where I’ll be.
Thanks guys.
John McArdle
5 Dec 2011Great article . I write because its relaxing as it should be . Don’t let the others take the fun out of it for you. You will always have a know-it-all to keep you on your toes . Onward and upward,
John McArdle
Ken G
5 Dec 2011Thanks John. I don’t mind being around a know-it-all that’s older than me, I defer to their experience.
It’s those ones probably half my age that can be an issue 🙂
Brookfieldangler
5 Dec 2011Well, I’ll tell you what – this post is almost as popular as the infamous thread that inspired it!
Ken G
5 Dec 2011Only a lot more civil and it hasn’t degenerated into the posting of cartoon characters and Star Wars toys, yet.
Maybe Boba Fett will make an appearance. HAHAAHAA HA
bob france
5 Dec 2011ok then since we got a good audience i get off work tonight at midnight i have a dozen nightcrawlers (im just gonna jig it…) and a big pot of coffee
ill be at the north end of the elgin casino by 1:00am anyone game?
Ken G
5 Dec 2011Bob, I hope to be fast asleep by then.
The fish can wait.
bob france
5 Dec 2011ken, its not about the fish… sleep can wait!
besides how are we going to call it the 1st annual ken g night-time cold weather walleye open if ur not there i was even going to suggest that we burn an effigy of that “mean poster”
oh well gess i just stop at one of my favorite roadside ponds on the way home and play with some bass before i go to bed
unless some one speaks up?
bob france
5 Dec 2011anyone?
Tim Silva
5 Dec 2011Ken,
You can’t please all of the people all of the time. Ignore the jackasses – perfect advice. Your journal has soul – many fish killers aren’t interested in soul.
Plain and simple.
Ken G
6 Dec 2011Tim, it sure seems that way, doesn’t it. I think that’s why I read more about trout fishing than anything else. I’m definitely living in the wrong place.
The Daughter
5 Dec 2011Well I’m obligated to be on your side being family and all but reading this was just frustrating. I’ve heard of middle school students, high school students, even people my age but this person (I’m guessing) is a grown man. If you are over the age of 30 and cannot say something either to someones face or at least using your real name, you really shouldn’t be saying anything at all.
Along with that, being a grown man, there is the choice to read whatever you want or ignore whatever you want. If he really feels like that about you then he should just ignore your blog/forum. That is something I never understood; what is the point of following/reading/watching someone that you can’t stand. And then what is the point of making sure that they know that? I just don’t understand and I guess I never will.
Ken G
6 Dec 2011You’re using logic and common sense, babe. That doesn’t do you any good in the fishing world. I guess that applies anywhere now. I’ve noticed with the popularity of blogs over the past 5 years or so, you can probably narrow your interests done to albino dachsunds (SP?) and find assholes that will argue with you.
The Fou Season Angler
5 Dec 2011I prefer to hide behind my alias. Oh wait you mean you can still see my fat ass through the thin veil of anonymity I have conjured? Damn.
I wasn’t surprised this guy pissed you off because he pissed me off too.
I could say more about what I really think of this kid (anyone that cowardly doesn’t deserve to me called man or guy), but it would be repetitive and unnecessary.
You can walk away from this one of two ways:
Either you are being taken shots at because he’s jealous, which makes sense.
Or, a bird and left pickle finger drank hop scotch gerbil panty liners inside Nigerian Prince trust fund. Which makes no sense at all.
Ken G
6 Dec 2011Ed,
As in the best oven in the world, I baked my barley-loaves, and became in little all called me governor. In a word, they all laid down their arms and begged deliverance.
And beg they should.
(Directly from a recent email, gotta love it).
Ken Hall/Quill Gordon
6 Dec 2011Finding an outlet is easy. Finding one that pays (anything) is hard and, with free content, I suppose the price of admission guarantees a certain percentage of readers will try to make it their own show. Screw ’em.
Now, if you had a couple dozen people calling you out it would be different, but you don’t, so keep banging away at the keyboard and posting photos and doing what you want. Some of your “good” readers are just quiet.
Ken G
6 Dec 2011I’m one of those quiet readers myself Quill.
Blog aliases, at least in my experience, are no where near as troublesome. Controllable on my end. And if they’re another blog writer, easy to look up. Forums are just a breeding ground for stupidity it seems.
My fear is that I have more than a couple of dozen people out there that agree with him and just don’t say anything 🙂
Kirk @ River Mud
7 Dec 2011Wow, there’s a lot here worth considering. That email you got was over the top. That’s amazing stuff. And it actually made me appreciate that while there are those I have piddly electronic disagreements with, from time to time, I have never sent, or been sent, a personal attack like that. I’m sorry you were.
It’s very hard to step away from an argument in which you are sure the other person is wrong, but we all have to do it. Sometimes it’s sure not as graceful a retreat as it could or should be, and we are all guilty of that from time to time.
I really enjoy your writing and the fact that you have so much history and knowledge on just one river in particular. I travel for work, and yearn for that much intimacy with a place (it reminds me of growing up in the swamp). The only thing that ever bums me out about your posts is that when they are on chicagonow.com; I can’t log in and commend you for another job well done. And no, I live 1000 miles from Chicago so I am not going to get a username and password for the site.
Don’t be afraid of having the “right” opinion, and don’t be afraid of being proven wrong. There’s tremendous value in both. Just my .02
Ken G
7 Dec 2011Kirk, if that was an email, I would have just blown it off. But it was put out there for all to see. That bugged me. Putting this up here was my catharsis, I’m done, unless he comes back.
I enjoy your site too. It is kind of nice knowing one watershed and there’s a lot I still haven’t got too. But I’m getting kind of buggy for something else, even at my advanced age of 55. The job market around Chicago is pretty much dead for me. I can go struggle anywhere. Maybe the cost of living won’t be so high.
I’m keeping the CN blog out there, but not putting up the longer posts anymore. I’ll probably just phase it out.
You ever travel through this area and have time, get in touch. I have everything you need, even fly rods if you want one of those. Ice should be all of the water by end of March, hopefully.
Kirk @ River Mud
7 Dec 2011I’d bet he comes back. With what attitude? Who knows.
Thanks for the invite. We have friends in Chicago and we’ve been meaning to make the trip for years. If we make it up there, I will definitely be making time to get afield. Don’t be surprised if you get that email one day.
hambone870
7 Dec 2011like water off a ducks back Ken… Co-fisher hit the nail on the head!